Don't Buy A Nalgene Water Bottle Until You Read This

I rather like my tinned tomatoes (in fact, they're the only tinned food I buy). Is there any way of spotting BPA-free tins, if they exist at all?

Small nit, but in the photo is not the white bottle in the upper left likely made of polyethylene and not polycarbonate? Also looks like a HDPE bottle is just peaking through in the lower right??

i read that HDPE plastics are still ok. like this one from nalgene: http://www.nalgene-outdoor.com/store/detail.aspx?ID=59

i guess they can't make the nice colors in that plastic.

is that right? treehuger would probably know better then i...

I think the title is a little unfair, because Nalgene also makes BPA free bottles. Just look for the softer plastic opaque ones instead of the rigid, clear version.

You said:

7. Stop using jugged water cooler water, get a filter and cooler that uses city water. It is a big jug so there probably isn't much of a problem, but why are you drinking bottled water anyways?

water cooler water from jugs is (a) much better than bottled individual waters and (b) much better for large scale offices than everyone having their own inidividual water filter and filling tap water. I would say that refillable water cooler jug service is a great way to ensure you get clean water and dont have plastic disposible bottles.

Where is your long term outlook here?

LA: A lot of water coolers are designed to use municipal water, and some have filters built in. I am suggesting that there is no reason for water jugs OR individual bottles, and if you are in your office all you need under those circumstances is a glass.

I use an empty VOSS bottle (glass), and I am always giving them away. They are really great, only problem is shipping them here (full of water) from Europe in the first place. Sigg has a liner, not sure what it is. I guess that sucker flies over from Europe too, or China probably. Same with Kleen Kanteen, which I love with the stainless stopper.

I sent this to some in my office (along with the post about the bottles making us fat) and one of my colleagues referred me to to another reason to steer clear of Nalgene: http://www.rmad.org/nalgene.html.

On another note, I got a chuckle out of the google ad that came up when I just now revisited the post--it's for cheap polycarbonate bottles!

I have a bottle from the "Think outside the bottle campaign", and they're aluminium on the ouside and stainless steel inside. They're very nice, I suggest them to anybody looking for a reuseable bottle. They were selling them at my school at cost for $7.

I know aluminium must be lined and SIGG lines their bottle. I have heard that all pop can linings (and beer etc.) leach BPA.
I read Sigg tested their bottles and found minimal leaching.
But can you trust Sigg's own testing?
Nalgene is saying Lexan is safe and that is PC with BPA for sure!
I think I read Sigg bottles leached 2 ppm, when heated in boiling water (their testing). But I have heard some studies are finding problems with doses in the ppb range.
Maybe you shouldn't recommend Sigg or other Al bottles.

A possible alternative would be plastic coated glass bottles. These are available for lab use, see:
http://www.all-pak.com/plasticglass.asp?navid=22
or
http://www.sisweb.com/lab/wheaton/bottle53.htm
I'm not sure these are safe for general use but they should be way more break resistant than standard glass, and they won't shatter all over the place if they do get broken.
Keep in mind that Nalgene (as far as I know) was and still is a major lab supply company.

About the sigg lining.

SIGG reusable bottles exceed FDA requirements and have been independently tested to prove 0.0% leaching, helping reduce your exposure to harmful chemicals like BPA. The proprietary SIGG bottle lining is a water-based, non-toxic coating that is baked into the interior walls and remains flexible and crack resistant for the life of the bottle. The special SIGG lining is not plastic – it is a micro-thin epoxy. Due to the finish of the liner, there is much less chance for bacteria build-up with a SIGG as opposed to plastic containers. The liner is taste-neutral and resistant to fruit acids and energy drinks, ensuring that your drinks taste like your drinks every time.

For me it boils down to quantities. A few years back my friend was appalled that Benzine is still freely sold on shop shelves even though it is cancerous. I told him that you have to ask, how much direct exposure over how long and at what frequency. Benzine is cancerous, but how many times a day, for how long, and over what time span do I have to be in direct contact before my body can not effectly protect me and I put myself is serious danger of developing cancer?

The same happened with the hole in the ozone theory. Thousand and millions of dollars in profits where made cause we all focused on what is the worst case scenario, but now, as research shows, the hole has always been there and we only contribute to it in the least. Yes, its great that we have less to zero CFC products, but it could have been fazed out over a longer period.

Same case with the polycarbonate bottles and plastic linings. How much exposure is dangerous? How much exposure will cause a health risk that is measurable and long lasting? Don't get me wrong, I think the stainless steel bottles are great and should, in theory last a lifetime, dents and all. If my metallurgical background and manufacturing techniques background serves me well, you'll send that dented stainless steel bottle back, they will pop it in the furnace, put it in the mould and pressurize, thus you have a new bottle, from a dented one. Polycarbonate, and I could be wrong here, is a thermosetting, which means, once its cured, it over, you don't melt it down and start over, like milk jugs which is a thermoplastic. Does the whole world have to come to a standstill over some statistics?

What if I told you that flying is the most dangerous form of traveling, would you argue it? You would, because statistics state that flying is the safest form of travel. What statistics fails to mention is the accompanying fact: Flying is the safest form of travel, compared to automobiles, per kilometer traveled (or per mile traveled). But, using the exact same statistic results, I can truthfully say that compared to automobiles, flying is the most dangerous form of travel for fatalities per accident.

Lets all calm down and focus on the bigger issues at hand, global warming and how you can help reducing your carbon footprint, TODAY!

I agree with Frank C. It is the dose that makes the poison. The BPA scare is just that, a scare.

Your metallurgical and manufacturing background have failed you. stainless bottles are not molded and will not be heated and re-poofed. And you are wrong; polycarbonate is not a thermoset, but a thermoplastic so can be recycled. Who suggested that "the whole world come to a standstill"? I see a lot of people informing themselves (and being misinformed by you, among others) in an effort to make intelligent choices. Waiting to see how much BPA exposure it will take to hurt you (or your unborn offspring) is just plain stupid when there are simple safe alternatives. The only entities that stand to be hurt by a "premature" shift away from polycarbonate bottles are chemical companies - boo frikity hoo - and Nalgene and their competitors. By the way, if the lining in a Sigg bottle is epoxy, that IS a plastic; a thermoset plastic, but I'm not saying that makes it bad.

Yes, Brandon and Ben are right--the opaque HDPE plastics (like the white bottles with blue tops pictured) are fine so if anyone has one of those, no need to throw it out!

I've read this article twice now and what I don't understand is its description of polycarbonate bottles getting "crazed" as they get older--what does this mean??

I just recently tossed all my Nalgenes away, but I heard that they also make Bisphenol A free bottles now. I heard that #3, 4, and 7 are not good and should be avoided, but what about the other numbers? Anyone have any insight on that?

For the Sigg bottles, I don't think you're supposed to put in hot water, but what about when you wash it? Does it then become more susceptible to leaching?

I could really use some suggestions: we are moving in a month to a new office, and there is no water in the office space, nor any ability to put water into the space (I've asked, begged, pleaded - but it's a physical impossibility). We will share a single sink down a hall with 5 other offices (and there is a men's room and a women's room on the floor).

I was going to purchase those big jugs of water through Mountain Spring's monthly service and a water cooler in order to have water in the office -- thinking that this was better than buying the smaller bottles of water so staff and guests could have water - and then I could use that water to make coffee or tea in an electric coffee pot for guests and staff.

But if the big jugs have bad plastic -- what should I do? Can anyone make a recommendation? Thank you for your advice and help!

why don't I drink municipal water? well, for one, not too long ago, researches said that municipal drinking water contains a ton of synthetic drugs, hormones and pesticides...
not to mention that by drinking that water, you contribute to getting more clean water processed with chemicals before getting into your tap. It's important to see the big picture.

So, I'd rather use (and re-use) those big plastic bottles (the really big ones). In my case, I am lucky enough to have access to a natural spring that hasn't been treated at all so I just reuse the big bottles to fill it up. It takes a litle bit more effort than just driving to the corner store to get water but it's clean and doesn't contribute to more synthetic chemicals leaching into water streams.

How can I tell which are the baddies?

Do they say something on them?

LA: if it is not #7 on the bottom it is probably OK.

May 2008 edition of Consumer Reports says bottles with Recycle Types 1 or 2 (polyethylene), and 5 (polypropylene), stainless steel or aluminum with BPA - free liners, and glass are safe.

So, I stopped using pre-bottled water a long time ago and purchased several reusable water bottles. I do not know what they are made of. The bodies are tinted and double walled hard plastic, the straw is a soft plastic, and the lid is another type of plastic. Nowhere is there any stamp of any kind to tell me about safety. I drink a lot of water and have a clear, hard plastic water filter bottle in the refrigerator. It does not have any information on it either. Do I dump all of it in a landfill? or not worry about it.

Gab said, "well, for one, not too long ago, researches said that municipal drinking water contains a ton of synthetic drugs, hormones and pesticides... "

Replace "researchers" with journalists and a "ton of synthetic drugs" with a minute amount, and then you are correct.

In the US, the drinking water is the best in the world, so much so, bottle water companies (even the big bottle "spring" ones) use it, and by the time they sell it to you, it's inferior to regular tap water.

Now the last 30 ft. of pipe to your home (the privately owned portion) is usually the main cause of most of the gunk in your tap water.

But that's what I love about the news now-a-days.; SENSATIONALISM AND FEAR!!! LOL!

fear mongering

unfortunately, in endocrinology, the dose does not make the poison. your body might recognize the pollutant in high doses, but BPA leaching from bottles is in small doses, has an effect at those small doses, and unfortunately, what we call here a small dose is around 1000 times what our body really produces in oestrogen quantity.

Foetus in contact with BPA have great chances of having, as adults, obesity, early puberty, diabetes, and on and on. Rings any bell in what you can see ? Obesity epidemics, anyone ?

Hi All - found this on the Nalgene site while researching the issue:

Nalgene to Phase Out Production of Consumer Bottles Containing BPA

Nalgene to focus on existing non-BPA bottles and recently announced Everyday line; Ensures consumers get the bottle that fits their lifestyle

ROCHESTER, N.Y. (April 18, 2008) – In response to consumer demand, Nalgene® will phase out production of its Outdoor line of polycarbonate containers that include the chemical Bisphenol-A (BPA) over the next several months, it announced today. Nalgene’s existing product mix, including the recently launched Everyday line, already features a number of containers made from materials that do not contain BPA.

“We have always been focused on responding to the needs and concerns of our customers,” said Steven Silverman, general manager of the Nalgene business. “With 10 different product lines in several different materials, we have the largest bottle offering on the market today. By eliminating containers containing BPA from our consumer product mix, our customers can have confidence that their needs are being met.”

The company recently unveiled its Everyday line, an assortment of bottles manufactured with Eastman’s Tritan™ copolyester. The line includes favorites such as the OTG (“On the Go”), the iconic 32-ounce Wide Mouth and the Grip-N-Gulp sippy cup. Tritan is impact resistant, withstands a wide range of temperatures and does not contain BPA. The new Everyday products are already available in stores and will be available through www.nalgene-outdoor.com next month.

To help consumers easily determine the bottle and material that is right for them, Nalgene also recently launched Nalgene Choice™, an online information resource at www.nalgenechoice.com. Nalgene Choice provides consumers with information to help them understand the features and benefits of Nalgene’s wide assortment of products and materials. The result – individuals can choose the product that is right for them.

“Today, everyone from hikers and outdoor enthusiasts to commuters and kids on the go are using Nalgene products to reduce the use of disposable bottles and containers,” said Silverman. “Based on all available scientific evidence, we continue to believe that Nalgene products containing BPA are safe for their intended use. However, our customers indicated they preferred BPA-free alternatives and we acted in response to those concerns.”

Ok, I understand PBA, but what about all the plasticizers that make plastic soft (squeezable) or are built into bottle liners, etc. I see claims from manufacturers about being PBA free, but not much is said about other leachable organics used in the formulation of those plastics that either form the bottle or a liner. Are we focused on just this one chemical (PBA) and forgetting other leachable materials (including metals)? I would prefer to not have to throw away a second set of bottles. Which bottles are free of leachable organics and inorganics compared to just PBA being free?

DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW I SHOULD DISPOSE OF MY OLD NALGENE BOTTLES SO THAT THEY DON'T FILL UP THE LANDFILLS NOW THAT WE ARE ALL REPLACING THEM WITH BPA-FREE BOTTLES? PLEASE ADVISE!!

Has anyone discussed the plastics in coffee makers?

Just use the new SIGG bottles. They are so much better than Nalgene anyways. The plastic sucks and of course Nalgene is going to say their plastic is good. If they said it was bad they would be out of business.

A glass water bottle for my bicycle, maybe an old beer bottle.
Good for me, good for you ... works as a weapon when riding through bad neighborhoods or dealing with clueless motorists.

Would make for good conversation at the office ... some apple juice in your old Corona bottle or water in the tinted Amstel bottle.

Happy Saturday!

vsk

Does anyone know about Lock&Lock? Is it BPA free? Thank you!

All plastics have additives. All these additives will leech out to some degree. Focusing only on BPA is ridiculous considering the hundreds of other organic chemicals found in the plastic materials we use everyday. If you get rid of one additive they would replace it with another. To totally be safe one would have to remove all plastics from their lives. I think the world has bigger concerns than an additive used in polycarb.

All plastics have additives. All these additives will leech out to some degree. Focusing only on BPA is ridiculous considering the hundreds of other organic chemicals found in the plastic materials we use everyday. If you get rid of one additive they would replace it with another. To totally be safe one would have to remove all plastics from their lives. I think the world has bigger concerns than an additive used in polycarb.

This is all very confusing and totally conflicting compared to what is out there on the nalgene and several retail (campmoor, REI) websites that promote the BPA free Nalgene bottles. I have several that we bought for our toddler from Nalgene that are BPA free from Nalgene. Its almost like this article is a year old. The industry has recognized and moved past this dangerous chemical already. Am I missing something?

This discussion is discouraging as people are advocating that bottles with bisphenol A be tossed out . What about the REUSE in the three R's? I can think of a hundred other ways to use a Nalgene bottle.

Call me a conspiracy theory nut if you want but this whole BPA scare sounds like a way for these bottle manufacturers to sell more bottles to customers who already own their products. I have a grey Nalgene bottle that I bought in 1990 that has taken many falls and has not cracked nor does it leak. Other than this BPA scare there really is no need for me to replace this bottle. We recently received a BPA free water bottle for our infant daughter as a gift. Wanting to know what this was all about I read the enclosed information about the different plastic that is used in this bottle and it states that this newer plastic is not as durable as the BPA containing bottles and may break when dropped. This all just screams of planned obsolescence to me. Now bottles that used to last a lifetime (almost 20 years in my case) are more likely to break and need replacement. Sounds pretty fishy to me.